[00:00:00] Namaste and welcome to PODS by PEI, a policy discussion series brought to you by Policy
[00:00:18] Entrepreneurs Inc.
[00:00:19] I am Prakat Karki.
[00:00:21] In today's episode, PEI colleague Subhangi Pawdal is in conversation with Rhea Sinha
[00:00:27] on a decade of neighborhood-first India's strategic shift and way forward.
[00:00:32] Rhea Sinha is an associate fellow at the Center for Social and Economic Progress in
[00:00:37] New Delhi, where she coordinates the Sambandh Regional Connectivity Initiative and co-manages
[00:00:44] the Sambandh Policy Dialogue.
[00:00:46] Her research focuses on regional economic connectivity in South Asia covering trade,
[00:00:51] logistic, infrastructure and border management.
[00:00:54] In 2022, she was a visiting fellow at the Stimson Center in Washington DC and a fellow
[00:01:01] at the Asian Forum on Global Governance.
[00:01:04] Previously, Rhea Sinha worked at the Bureau of Research on Industry and Economic Fundamentals,
[00:01:10] conducting research on regional trade, supply chain and trade facilitation.
[00:01:15] Subhangi and Rhea reflect on a decade of India's neighborhood-first policy since its
[00:01:20] inception in 2014.
[00:01:22] They discuss India's initial focus, strategic adjustment in response to China Belt and
[00:01:28] Road Initiative and regional expectations for enhancing connectivity and cooperation,
[00:01:34] including the potential revival of shark.
[00:01:36] Rhea highlights the new connectivity projects with the Middle East and Europe, economic
[00:01:41] cooperation with Nepal, especially in the energy sector, and collaborative initiatives
[00:01:47] with the U.S.
[00:01:49] She advocates for prioritizing funds and manpower for India's neighbors to achieve
[00:01:54] It's Vishwa Guru ambition and emphasizes in incorporating a feminist dimension into
[00:02:00] the policy.
[00:02:01] We hope you enjoy the conversation.
[00:02:31] a woman in foreign policy and to be taken so seriously and have so much going on for
[00:02:36] you.
[00:02:37] It's really amazing that you agreed to come on.
[00:02:38] So thank you so much once again.
[00:02:39] With the pleasure of all mine, it's an honor to be on the podcast.
[00:02:43] Great.
[00:02:44] All right, so let's get right into it.
[00:02:46] Today we'll mostly be talking about India's neighborhood policy in a reflection because
[00:02:52] it's been a decade since India's neighborhood-first policy was first announced.
[00:02:56] And so to begin the episode, I'd like us to reflect on India's neighborhood policy
[00:03:00] a decade since its inception.
[00:03:02] So Prime Minister Modi highlighted the importance of strengthening relationships with
[00:03:07] the neighborhood, particularly with a focus on different forms of connectivity in the
[00:03:11] region when he first came into power in 2014.
[00:03:14] Can you share the insights on India's initial focus and approach under this policy
[00:03:19] in the early years? And what would you say have been some of the notable
[00:03:23] developments since?
[00:03:25] Thank you for that question, Shivangi.
[00:03:26] That should be the bread and butter of what I do in my research area.
[00:03:31] And I'm happy to share that the last decade has actually been very good for
[00:03:36] India's regional connected development across a range of sectors.
[00:03:40] And this is a result of prioritization of the neighborhood through the
[00:03:44] neighborhood-first and ACTIZ policies.
[00:03:47] There are several areas, several examples that I can give over here, for
[00:03:50] example, in infrastructure development.
[00:03:53] We now have many integrated checkposts along the land borders with our
[00:03:57] neighboring countries, including multimodal integrated checkposts with
[00:04:01] Bangladesh today.
[00:04:02] New railway links are being developed.
[00:04:04] Six out of seven railway links have been revived in Bangladesh.
[00:04:07] We have the first passenger railway with Nepal and new railway lines have
[00:04:11] been planned with Bhutan, you know, first of its kind in the region.
[00:04:15] There's been construction of petroleum pipelines with Nepal and Bangladesh,
[00:04:19] better air connectivity with our neighboring countries, inland water
[00:04:23] where roads have been operational and cargo movement through them has been
[00:04:27] increasing. India and Nepal also signed a power trade agreement earlier this
[00:04:31] year, wherein India will buy 10,000 megawatts of power from Nepal.
[00:04:35] And beyond this, you know, beyond this hard infrastructure development,
[00:04:39] there have been other developments such as increase in bilateral visits
[00:04:42] in the region. If we measure it in the last decade, Prime Minister
[00:04:46] Modi has made twice as many visits to the neighborhood compared to the
[00:04:50] previous 20 years.
[00:04:51] Also, even domestically in India at the central level and state level,
[00:04:57] there have been many changes.
[00:04:59] For example, the Assam government has launched its own active
[00:05:03] division. Bhutan has opened a consulate in Guwahati.
[00:05:07] So we also feel like decentralization of the neighborhood policy where
[00:05:12] states in India, the border states in India also play a major role.
[00:05:16] Then at a sub regional level, there have been efforts to work through
[00:05:19] the Bangladesh, Bhutan, India, Nepal sub region.
[00:05:23] Even though the motor vehicles agreement has been delayed, I think
[00:05:26] mobilization from sub region initiatives has been important.
[00:05:30] And lastly, I think important factors also include the private sector.
[00:05:35] The private sector has been offered, for example, a concessional finance
[00:05:38] team to invest in strategic infrastructure projects in the neighboring
[00:05:42] countries. And these are some of the examples of the developments
[00:05:46] that have taken place in the last decade, especially in terms of
[00:05:49] building. Many projects have been successful.
[00:05:52] Many are still lagging.
[00:05:54] It's not a 100% story yet.
[00:05:57] And therefore there is also now a potential for us to rethink after
[00:06:02] 10 years how we want to evolve our neighborhood connectivity and
[00:06:06] strategy and take a holistic view of all the factors needed to
[00:06:10] move the trend direction.
[00:06:12] Right. I mean, it's great that you talk about how India should look
[00:06:16] towards evolving the strategy, because my next question was, how would
[00:06:21] you say that India has adjusted its strategic approach and engagement
[00:06:25] in South Asia and the Indian Ocean region over the past few years
[00:06:30] to maybe counter China's growing influence, particularly through the
[00:06:33] Belt and Road Initiative?
[00:06:35] India has focused mostly on its strength in the neighboring
[00:06:39] countries. I mean, there's no doubt that China's engagement in India's
[00:06:44] neighborhood is one of the factors why India has also stepped up on
[00:06:48] delivering on its connectivity projects.
[00:06:51] I mean, except Bhutan, all of India's neighbors are signatory to the
[00:06:54] Belt and Road Initiative.
[00:06:56] But that said, China is not the only reason.
[00:07:00] There are political factors, there are economic factors to this
[00:07:03] approach as well, including India's own foreign policy ambitions in
[00:07:07] the neighborhood, the ambition of becoming a regional leader.
[00:07:10] That said, though, India cannot match China dollar for dollar in every
[00:07:14] infrastructure project that is going in the region.
[00:07:16] And therefore, India's strategy now has been to focus on
[00:07:20] strengths and on its own strengths and delivery of the
[00:07:23] connected projects.
[00:07:24] Development cooperation, for instance, has been one of India's
[00:07:28] strengths with the neighboring countries.
[00:07:30] In one of the papers that I co-authored with Dr.
[00:07:33] Konstantinos, we point out that India's immediate neighborhood
[00:07:37] accounts for maximum development cooperation that India gives out.
[00:07:42] And out of this, almost 86 percent is directed at infrastructure
[00:07:45] development projects in these countries.
[00:07:48] Additionally, among all of our lines of credit, for example,
[00:07:52] that India bilaterally extends to other countries, the
[00:07:54] highest has been extended to Bangladesh, which is today at
[00:07:58] $1.4 billion.
[00:08:00] Even during Sri Lanka's economic crisis, India extended an
[00:08:04] assistance of approximately $4 billion.
[00:08:06] But beyond this, India is also engaged in small development
[00:08:09] projects or the so-called high impact community development
[00:08:13] projects in the neighborhood.
[00:08:15] And these include building schools, houses, hospitals,
[00:08:18] providing ambulances, etc., which benefit the grassroot
[00:08:22] community.
[00:08:23] India also has an Indian technical and economic
[00:08:26] operation ITAC program, which has many officials from the
[00:08:30] neighboring countries.
[00:08:32] And as I previously mentioned, India has been delivering on a
[00:08:35] lot of these infrastructure projects, building land ports,
[00:08:38] petroleum pipelines.
[00:08:40] And this kind of delivery has become one of India's
[00:08:43] strengths because we've seen in the past, there were projects
[00:08:47] that would be delayed for 20 plus years and now we have
[00:08:49] seen delivery happen one after another.
[00:08:51] So that's a big change and the involvement of border states
[00:08:54] as I mentioned before.
[00:08:57] SART may have hit a roadblock, but India is also
[00:08:59] working through other regional institutions, Winstead, one of
[00:09:02] them BDIN, as I mentioned before.
[00:09:04] But another one of India's strategy, which I at least
[00:09:08] appreciate in my research is India is now open to engaging
[00:09:12] with external partners such as Japan, US, Australia, European
[00:09:16] Union for connectivity projects.
[00:09:18] This was a country which did not like the involvement of
[00:09:21] external players in its neighborhood.
[00:09:23] But today it's become a reality for us that we do
[00:09:26] need these external players, like-minded partners in the
[00:09:29] region to coordinate infrastructure projects with.
[00:09:34] And these are just some examples of how much India's
[00:09:37] approach has evolved in the neighborhood.
[00:09:39] It focuses on using bilateral regional external instruments
[00:09:44] to really deliver on the connectivity and development
[00:09:46] projects.
[00:09:47] I mean, that's a great overview.
[00:09:50] Now building on this, I would now like to ask a few
[00:09:53] questions with the curiosity of being India's neighbor.
[00:09:56] So like you mentioned, India is also a part of regional
[00:09:59] initiatives like BIMSTEC and BBI.
[00:10:02] And as the largest power in South Asia, India is
[00:10:05] undoubtedly has a lot of leverage with its neighbors.
[00:10:09] And the neighbors also look towards New Delhi to lead
[00:10:12] the regional growth and development and increasingly so.
[00:10:16] And while regional initiatives like BIMSTEC and BBI hold
[00:10:19] major significance for development aspirations of
[00:10:23] India's small state neighbors, would you disagree if
[00:10:26] I said India's neighbor expect more from India and not
[00:10:29] just in improving regional connectivity, but also to
[00:10:32] revive other areas of regional cooperation like SARC?
[00:10:36] I wouldn't disagree with you.
[00:10:37] I mean, absolutely.
[00:10:38] And why not?
[00:10:40] I would agree that expectations from India have
[00:10:43] increased from the neighboring countries and for good
[00:10:46] reasons.
[00:10:47] This has also pushed India to deliver on the
[00:10:49] lot of these problems.
[00:10:50] So I think it's a win-win situation for all.
[00:10:52] But India also needs to respond to these demands of
[00:10:55] the neighboring countries for two reasons specifically.
[00:10:58] One is economic growth in the neighboring countries.
[00:11:01] Before COVID, if we see many of our neighboring
[00:11:04] countries, South Asian neighborhood countries,
[00:11:06] we're showing a growth, economic growth of 6 to 8%.
[00:11:10] Two countries from the region, Bangladesh and Nepal,
[00:11:13] are set to graduate from the least developed
[00:11:15] country status in 2026.
[00:11:18] Today, Bangladesh is higher per capita GDP than
[00:11:22] India and it's been leading for the last four
[00:11:23] years.
[00:11:25] Bangladesh is today the fifth largest export
[00:11:28] destination for India.
[00:11:30] We're also negotiating a comprehensive economic
[00:11:33] partnership agreement.
[00:11:34] And there's also a major trade partner for
[00:11:36] other South Asian countries.
[00:11:37] So naturally there is a demand for more
[00:11:40] bilateral trade, more development projects, more
[00:11:43] infrastructural investments from these
[00:11:45] countries.
[00:11:46] But another reason is the increasing number of
[00:11:48] players in the region.
[00:11:49] Today we're in a scenario where India is not
[00:11:51] the only player in the South Asian region.
[00:11:53] There's China, there's Japan, there's United
[00:11:55] States, European Union.
[00:11:57] All are engaged in the region and different
[00:11:59] developmental areas.
[00:12:00] And therefore, India really needs to step up
[00:12:04] to the demands of the neighboring countries
[00:12:05] because if India doesn't fill that gap,
[00:12:07] somebody else will.
[00:12:09] And what kind of leverage does that leave
[00:12:11] India with?
[00:12:12] And India does have a lot of strengths with
[00:12:14] its own agencies, with its private sector
[00:12:16] that it can deliver on and respond to the
[00:12:19] demands of these neighboring countries.
[00:12:20] So I think like again, agree with you
[00:12:23] that the demands, I mean, I don't disagree
[00:12:25] that the demand should be there.
[00:12:26] In fact, there should be more demands.
[00:12:28] It's only a mark of a healthy development.
[00:12:31] Wonderful.
[00:12:31] Wonderful to hear that.
[00:12:33] I mean, apart from the neighborhood also,
[00:12:34] India seems to be championing its own
[00:12:36] connectivity project with the Middle East
[00:12:38] and Europe.
[00:12:39] Could you tell us more about that development
[00:12:41] and how it could probably maybe somehow
[00:12:43] also benefit the neighborhood?
[00:12:46] Yeah, with the Middle East and the
[00:12:48] neighborhood, there's been a lot of
[00:12:49] conversations on railway development,
[00:12:51] on port development.
[00:12:52] In fact, one of the important outcomes
[00:12:54] of the G20 summit was the signing of
[00:12:58] an MOU on the India-Middle East Europe
[00:13:02] Economic Corridor.
[00:13:03] And this corridor is aimed at facilitating
[00:13:06] multimodal trade between India and
[00:13:09] European countries, basically dealing
[00:13:10] with this and getting alternative routes
[00:13:13] to connect with one of its major markets.
[00:13:16] Now, this multimodal connectivity is
[00:13:18] expected to benefit all the associated
[00:13:20] countries in the region in the whole
[00:13:22] chain and for India also to show its
[00:13:24] expertise in railway development,
[00:13:27] in port development, UAE has expertise
[00:13:29] to develop complementarities in
[00:13:32] infrastructure development.
[00:13:33] But IMEC, when extended eastwards
[00:13:36] from India, also has a potential for
[00:13:38] connecting the economies of the Bay of
[00:13:40] Bengal region.
[00:13:41] And that's when this whole chain can have
[00:13:43] immense benefit, not just in the IMEC
[00:13:46] corridor, but also for India's
[00:13:48] neighborhood towards acting policy by
[00:13:50] extending it to the Bay of Bengal region.
[00:13:52] So I think there's both east-west
[00:13:54] approach, which is aimed at good
[00:13:56] connectivity, good development and
[00:13:58] economic growth.
[00:14:00] Now I'd like to zoom you in from
[00:14:01] the neighborhood a bit and explore
[00:14:02] India-Nepal bilaterally.
[00:14:05] And all that has evolved over
[00:14:08] the past decade.
[00:14:09] So has Nepal's hydropower capabilities.
[00:14:11] And we just spoke about, you just
[00:14:12] mentioned a while ago, energy
[00:14:14] cooperation between the two countries.
[00:14:16] So I know it comes with its own
[00:14:18] issues, but it has nonetheless
[00:14:20] captured the imagination of a
[00:14:21] section of Nepalese for sure.
[00:14:23] And so I'd like to talk about
[00:14:25] India's cooperation with Nepal now
[00:14:27] in terms of energy, as it is one
[00:14:29] of the most important areas of
[00:14:30] bilateral cooperation with clear
[00:14:33] benefits for Nepal in particular.
[00:14:35] While India too stands to benefit
[00:14:37] from Nepal's clean hydropower
[00:14:38] based energy, why is India, New
[00:14:40] Delhi insisted on treating Nepal's
[00:14:42] energy as a strategic product
[00:14:44] with seemingly security
[00:14:46] implications?
[00:14:47] Any connectivity initiative is
[00:14:49] also seen as a strategic product.
[00:14:51] It's not specific to Nepal's
[00:14:53] energy sector.
[00:14:54] Railway sector, for example,
[00:14:56] has also treated as strategic
[00:14:57] where we build broad gauge railways
[00:14:59] as compared to the standard
[00:15:00] gauge railways that every other
[00:15:01] country builds.
[00:15:03] So there is a strategic thought
[00:15:05] process that goes into any sort of
[00:15:06] connectivity initiative and this
[00:15:08] includes the hydropower sector,
[00:15:10] the energy sector.
[00:15:11] And today we are in a time
[00:15:13] where we cannot really bifurcate
[00:15:16] the economic from the security.
[00:15:19] There is ongoing border crisis
[00:15:21] because there's an ongoing border
[00:15:22] crisis with China.
[00:15:23] We know that India is competing
[00:15:25] with China on some of the
[00:15:27] projects in our neighboring
[00:15:28] countries.
[00:15:29] The increasing engagement is
[00:15:30] something that concerns India.
[00:15:32] So I mean, it's also
[00:15:35] a way to sort of
[00:15:36] have closer relations,
[00:15:38] have closer strategic relations
[00:15:40] with these countries.
[00:15:41] Like I said before, by delivering
[00:15:43] on some of these projects and
[00:15:44] if these and they will have
[00:15:46] strategic implications no matter
[00:15:47] what.
[00:15:49] It's just that countries have to
[00:15:50] find a way to work through it.
[00:15:52] Right.
[00:15:53] In another one of your recent
[00:15:54] analysis, you also advocated
[00:15:56] for greater US engagement
[00:15:58] on infrastructure development in
[00:15:59] South Asia and citing that
[00:16:01] US-India partnership
[00:16:03] and the Millennium Challenge
[00:16:05] Compact Project in Nepal are
[00:16:06] such examples where India seems
[00:16:08] to be closely coordinating with
[00:16:09] the United States at least.
[00:16:11] So are there similar
[00:16:13] and complementing development
[00:16:14] initiatives elsewhere in South
[00:16:16] Asia, where two powers of
[00:16:18] these two powers in particular
[00:16:19] have collaborated to support
[00:16:20] development aspirations of the
[00:16:22] recipient state?
[00:16:23] And do you believe that there
[00:16:24] is a need for India to seek
[00:16:26] and welcome more of such
[00:16:27] complementing initiatives in the
[00:16:29] region, especially if it can
[00:16:31] contribute to regional security
[00:16:32] and the recipient country's
[00:16:34] needs?
[00:16:35] No, absolutely.
[00:16:36] I mean, if it contributes to the
[00:16:37] development and security needs
[00:16:39] of the neighboring countries,
[00:16:40] then why not?
[00:16:41] And this is one of the
[00:16:42] change that we see under the
[00:16:43] Neighborhood First Policy that
[00:16:45] India is willing to engage
[00:16:46] with a not more external
[00:16:47] players.
[00:16:48] Japan is a fantastic example
[00:16:50] for this. For example, a lot
[00:16:52] of the projects that the
[00:16:53] Japanese government is
[00:16:55] investing in India's Northeast
[00:16:56] region, in Bangladesh, and
[00:16:58] actually complementing
[00:16:59] to invest own projects in the
[00:17:01] region, road development,
[00:17:02] road development, railway
[00:17:04] development, they all
[00:17:05] complement and build a
[00:17:07] whole network of corridors
[00:17:09] in the Northeast region for
[00:17:11] economic development, which
[00:17:12] also then onwards connects to
[00:17:13] Bhutan, also connects to
[00:17:15] Nepal. So these developments
[00:17:16] are taking place in
[00:17:18] coordination.
[00:17:19] We believe the countries
[00:17:20] cannot be involved in every
[00:17:21] project together.
[00:17:22] There are different standards,
[00:17:23] country-specific standards and
[00:17:25] norms to consider.
[00:17:26] So I mean, it might be a
[00:17:28] difficult scenario to think of
[00:17:29] India, Japan, for example,
[00:17:31] doing a project together
[00:17:33] because of these different
[00:17:34] standards, but we can always
[00:17:35] coordinate on the different
[00:17:36] projects and which is
[00:17:37] happening right now.
[00:17:39] US beyond the MCC,
[00:17:40] India is developing the
[00:17:42] West container terminal in
[00:17:43] Colombo Port, for example.
[00:17:45] US is also offered an
[00:17:47] amount of more than
[00:17:48] $400 million for the
[00:17:50] development of the West
[00:17:51] container terminal.
[00:17:52] So these are complementary
[00:17:53] to Indian initiatives
[00:17:56] in the region that are
[00:17:57] only going to strengthen
[00:17:58] Indian initiatives in the
[00:17:59] region while also
[00:18:00] contributing to the
[00:18:01] development of the host
[00:18:03] country.
[00:18:04] And such initiatives should
[00:18:06] be welcomed.
[00:18:07] Not everything is to
[00:18:08] counterbalance China in
[00:18:09] the region or done with
[00:18:10] that vision.
[00:18:11] That's actually
[00:18:11] counterproductive.
[00:18:12] The only vision is to
[00:18:14] counterbalance China in
[00:18:15] the region.
[00:18:16] Sure, that can be one of
[00:18:17] the objectives, but
[00:18:19] that's not the only
[00:18:20] objective.
[00:18:21] Right.
[00:18:23] Building on that, I
[00:18:25] wanted to get your
[00:18:25] perspective on the
[00:18:26] budgetary allocation for
[00:18:28] India's neighborhood
[00:18:29] initiatives.
[00:18:29] I mean, I believe it is
[00:18:30] a crucial indicator of
[00:18:33] the priority and
[00:18:34] commitment India places
[00:18:36] on its neighborhood
[00:18:36] first foreign policy.
[00:18:38] And while I was doing
[00:18:39] my research for this
[00:18:40] episode, I came across
[00:18:42] yet another article
[00:18:43] you co-authored for
[00:18:44] the Hindustan Times
[00:18:45] called India's
[00:18:46] Vishwa Guru ambitions
[00:18:48] need to be backed by
[00:18:49] resources, manpower.
[00:18:51] I believe that was the
[00:18:52] title.
[00:18:53] You argue that India
[00:18:55] needs to prioritize
[00:18:55] funds for its
[00:18:56] neighbors and that for
[00:18:57] India to achieve its
[00:18:58] ambition of becoming
[00:18:59] a leading power or
[00:19:01] a Vishwa Guru in
[00:19:02] PM Narendra Modi's
[00:19:03] terms.
[00:19:04] Can you elaborate
[00:19:05] more on that?
[00:19:07] First of all, thank you
[00:19:07] for reading the article
[00:19:08] that I co-authored with
[00:19:10] Dr.
[00:19:10] Konstantinos Evia.
[00:19:12] What we argue in
[00:19:14] what we argued in
[00:19:14] that article is that
[00:19:15] while India has
[00:19:16] ambitions to become
[00:19:17] a regional leader,
[00:19:19] a Vishwa Guru,
[00:19:20] or a Vishwa Bandhu,
[00:19:21] the government will
[00:19:22] have to invest heavily
[00:19:24] in upgrading
[00:19:25] the Ministry of
[00:19:25] External Affairs,
[00:19:26] human and financial
[00:19:27] resources.
[00:19:29] If you look at the
[00:19:30] last few years,
[00:19:31] India's public share
[00:19:32] has been increasing
[00:19:33] only markedly by
[00:19:34] 3 to 4 percents.
[00:19:35] Our diplomats are
[00:19:36] increasingly over-
[00:19:37] stretched.
[00:19:38] We have just about
[00:19:39] 1000 diplomats,
[00:19:40] which is the same
[00:19:41] size as Portugal,
[00:19:42] New Zealand and
[00:19:43] just smaller than
[00:19:44] Singapore.
[00:19:45] Therefore, there is
[00:19:46] a need to expand
[00:19:47] the both generalist
[00:19:48] and expert cardinal
[00:19:49] to deal with
[00:19:50] a complex range of
[00:19:51] policy domain from
[00:19:52] emerging tech,
[00:19:53] critical minerals,
[00:19:54] energy security.
[00:19:55] These are the areas
[00:19:56] where India
[00:19:57] has security issues
[00:19:58] in today's standard.
[00:19:59] And the MEA needs
[00:20:00] to keep up with that.
[00:20:01] And the neighbourhood
[00:20:02] will need to be
[00:20:03] prioritized in all of this
[00:20:04] because India is
[00:20:05] expanding its projects
[00:20:06] in the region.
[00:20:07] It will have to
[00:20:08] increase its financial
[00:20:09] allocation to the
[00:20:10] neighbourhood.
[00:20:11] But that, it needs
[00:20:12] a well-capacitated
[00:20:13] MEA, a huge network
[00:20:14] of diplomats
[00:20:15] to deliver on
[00:20:16] India's commitments.
[00:20:17] Right.
[00:20:18] This has been great
[00:20:19] so far and
[00:20:20] we are very happy
[00:20:21] that we have
[00:20:22] reached this point
[00:20:23] and that we have
[00:20:24] reached this point
[00:20:25] and that we have
[00:20:26] been great so far
[00:20:27] and we have come,
[00:20:28] I can't believe
[00:20:29] I mean time has
[00:20:30] literally flown by
[00:20:31] but we have come
[00:20:32] towards the end of
[00:20:33] the podcast.
[00:20:34] And the last question
[00:20:35] is one that is
[00:20:36] a bit close to my heart
[00:20:37] as well.
[00:20:38] Through your work
[00:20:39] you have often
[00:20:40] emphasized that the
[00:20:41] inclusion of a
[00:20:42] feminist dimension
[00:20:43] in India's
[00:20:44] neighbourhood first policy
[00:20:45] highlighting the need
[00:20:46] to centralize the
[00:20:47] role of women
[00:20:48] in order to better
[00:20:49] achieve regional interests.
[00:20:50] This is a topic
[00:20:51] that energizes me
[00:20:52] personally so I am
[00:20:53] curious to know.
[00:20:54] How can the India's
[00:20:55] policy be
[00:20:56] innovatively shaped
[00:20:57] to centralize the
[00:20:58] role of women
[00:20:59] and adopt a
[00:21:00] feminist and gender
[00:21:01] sensitive approach
[00:21:02] in line with its
[00:21:03] foreign policy
[00:21:04] tradition of
[00:21:05] democratic realism
[00:21:06] and what concrete
[00:21:07] policy measures
[00:21:08] can India undertake
[00:21:09] to promote
[00:21:10] political diversity,
[00:21:11] social inclusiveness,
[00:21:12] regional stability,
[00:21:13] development and
[00:21:14] security.
[00:21:15] While emphasizing
[00:21:16] the importance of
[00:21:17] women's participation
[00:21:18] and empowerment
[00:21:19] in the region.
[00:21:20] Thank you and I am
[00:21:21] glad to hear
[00:21:22] that you feel
[00:21:23] so strongly about
[00:21:24] this as well.
[00:21:25] I mean in my
[00:21:26] career I have been
[00:21:27] in rooms where
[00:21:28] I was the only
[00:21:29] woman talking
[00:21:30] about these issues
[00:21:31] on infrastructure,
[00:21:32] on trade,
[00:21:33] on logistics.
[00:21:34] So you know
[00:21:35] this is something
[00:21:36] that is always
[00:21:37] very close to my heart
[00:21:38] too.
[00:21:39] To get back
[00:21:40] to your question
[00:21:41] I think I will answer
[00:21:42] both your questions
[00:21:43] together.
[00:21:44] See South Asia
[00:21:45] with its history
[00:21:46] of war, border
[00:21:47] conflicts is a
[00:21:48] difficult place
[00:21:49] for India to
[00:21:50] practice its
[00:21:51] feminist foreign policy.
[00:21:52] But then
[00:21:53] there is
[00:21:54] scope for rethinking
[00:21:55] and adoption
[00:21:56] of policy measures
[00:21:57] that ensure
[00:21:58] participation
[00:21:59] of women
[00:22:00] and other
[00:22:01] marginalized
[00:22:02] groups in the
[00:22:03] exercise of
[00:22:04] foreign policy.
[00:22:05] And there are
[00:22:06] a few areas
[00:22:07] where India
[00:22:08] can focus on
[00:22:09] for doing this.
[00:22:10] One is through
[00:22:11] development cooperation
[00:22:12] particularly through
[00:22:13] these high impact
[00:22:14] community
[00:22:15] development projects.
[00:22:16] India could
[00:22:17] increase support
[00:22:18] to these
[00:22:19] proposals dedicated
[00:22:20] to gender equality,
[00:22:21] fair opportunities
[00:22:22] and when India
[00:22:23] does impact assessment
[00:22:24] of these projects
[00:22:25] as well
[00:22:26] it should also
[00:22:27] use a marker
[00:22:28] to identify
[00:22:29] how this has
[00:22:30] benefited women
[00:22:31] and other marginalized
[00:22:32] groups
[00:22:33] so that this can
[00:22:34] be adopted
[00:22:35] to future
[00:22:36] community development
[00:22:37] projects as well.
[00:22:38] Another area
[00:22:39] is cross border trade.
[00:22:40] Most of these
[00:22:41] especially in land
[00:22:42] border trade
[00:22:43] most of these
[00:22:44] land ports
[00:22:45] are located
[00:22:46] in difficult
[00:22:47] to access areas
[00:22:48] where there is
[00:22:49] no road
[00:22:50] or public transportation
[00:22:51] and there also
[00:22:52] the officials
[00:22:53] posted in these
[00:22:54] areas there is a lack
[00:22:55] of gender sensitization
[00:22:56] among border
[00:22:57] authorities.
[00:22:58] So these are the
[00:22:59] areas where
[00:23:00] India really
[00:23:01] needs to work on
[00:23:02] the land ports
[00:23:03] authority of India
[00:23:04] in fact is doing
[00:23:05] some work on this
[00:23:06] but more work
[00:23:07] needs to be done
[00:23:08] to make sure
[00:23:09] that there is
[00:23:10] equal opportunity
[00:23:11] to trade
[00:23:12] for every group
[00:23:13] and one of the
[00:23:14] suggestions how
[00:23:15] this can be done
[00:23:16] is through
[00:23:17] digitization
[00:23:18] of trade procedures.
[00:23:19] What happens
[00:23:20] is that
[00:23:21] for clearance
[00:23:22] one agency
[00:23:23] is seated close
[00:23:24] to the border
[00:23:25] the second agency
[00:23:26] might be
[00:23:27] seated 10 kilometers
[00:23:28] away.
[00:23:29] So and you
[00:23:30] need to physically
[00:23:31] go to all of
[00:23:32] these to clear
[00:23:33] your cardboard.
[00:23:34] By digitization
[00:23:35] a lot of these
[00:23:36] processes can
[00:23:37] be done online
[00:23:38] it can be
[00:23:39] easily accessible
[00:23:40] to women
[00:23:41] and therefore
[00:23:42] the conductive trade
[00:23:43] can remain
[00:23:44] very easy.
[00:23:45] Finally the last
[00:23:46] area where India
[00:23:47] can focus on
[00:23:48] is health cooperation
[00:23:49] and the irony
[00:23:50] in the region
[00:23:51] is said while
[00:23:52] women form
[00:23:53] a significant
[00:23:54] portion of
[00:23:55] the healthcare
[00:23:56] workers
[00:23:57] women and
[00:23:58] children are
[00:23:59] not
[00:24:00] they continue
[00:24:01] to face
[00:24:02] health disparities
[00:24:03] and are
[00:24:04] not prioritized
[00:24:05] in the
[00:24:06] policy space.
[00:24:07] Therefore there
[00:24:08] is a need
[00:24:09] to put together
[00:24:10] a gender
[00:24:11] sensitive
[00:24:12] health cooperation
[00:24:13] high on the
[00:24:14] agenda.
[00:24:15] India already
[00:24:16] engages in
[00:24:17] capacity building
[00:24:18] and
[00:24:19] I don't just mean
[00:24:20] women like
[00:24:21] I mean every
[00:24:22] group every
[00:24:23] marginalized
[00:24:24] into the
[00:24:25] training
[00:24:26] program.
[00:24:27] And India can
[00:24:28] do this it
[00:24:29] has been
[00:24:30] pushing for an
[00:24:31] increasingly
[00:24:32] progressive and
[00:24:33] feminist foreign
[00:24:34] policy at a
[00:24:35] global level
[00:24:36] and it's just
[00:24:37] time to
[00:24:38] replicate those
[00:24:39] in our
[00:24:40] neighborhood.
[00:24:41] Yeah I mean usually
[00:24:42] when you put
[00:24:43] foreign policy
[00:24:44] and feminist
[00:24:45] together people
[00:24:46] think it's
[00:24:47] a good
[00:24:48] thing to
[00:24:49] do.
[00:24:50] So I think
[00:24:51] that's
[00:24:52] a good
[00:24:53] thing to
[00:24:54] do.
[00:24:55] Thank you so
[00:24:56] much for
[00:24:57] detailing
[00:24:58] that.
[00:24:59] Yeah absolutely
[00:25:00] it has
[00:25:01] implications in
[00:25:02] every
[00:25:03] sector so
[00:25:04] this is something
[00:25:05] people
[00:25:06] need to
[00:25:07] think about
[00:25:08] and
[00:25:09] I thank you
[00:25:10] for giving
[00:25:11] such a
[00:25:12] wonderful
[00:25:13] explanation.
[00:25:14] This conversation
[00:25:15] has given
[00:25:16] a pleasure.
[00:25:17] Thank you so
[00:25:18] much Rhea and
[00:25:19] we'll be in
[00:25:20] touch.
[00:25:21] Thank you very
[00:25:22] much.
[00:25:23] Thanks for listening to
[00:25:25] Pods by
[00:25:26] P.I.
[00:25:27] I hope you enjoy
[00:25:28] Subangi's
[00:25:29] conversation with
[00:25:30] Rhea on a
[00:25:31] decade of
[00:25:32] neighborhood first
[00:25:33] India's
[00:25:34] strategic shift
[00:25:35] and way
[00:25:36] forward.
[00:25:37] Today's
[00:25:38] episode was
[00:25:39] produced by
[00:25:40] Nirjan Rai
[00:25:41] with support from
[00:25:42] Khushi Hang
[00:25:43] and Ridesh
[00:25:44] Sapkota.
[00:25:45] Our theme
[00:25:46] music is courtesy
[00:25:47] of Rohit
[00:25:48] from Zindabad.
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