Pen, Power, Politics: Nirjan Rai on Education Diplomacy in South Asia

[00:00:01] Namaste and welcome to PODS by PEI, a policy discussion series brought to you by Policy

[00:00:18] Entrepreneurs Inc.

[00:00:19] I am Shivangi Paudyal.

[00:00:21] In today's episode, I am having a conversation with PEI's Nirjan Rai on PEN Power Politics

[00:00:26] Education Diplomacy in South Asia.

[00:00:29] Nirjan is a researcher with over 20 years of experience of designing, managing, and

[00:00:33] leading analytical studies in Nepal and the United States.

[00:00:36] He specializes in political economy analysis and has examined critical reforms in the electricity

[00:00:42] sector, water governance, and geopolitics.

[00:00:44] Nirjan is the primary author of the recent PEI report, PEN Power Politics, How China

[00:00:49] and India wield soft power through education diplomacy in South Asia.

[00:00:53] Nirjan and I discussed the strategic use of education diplomacy by China and India

[00:00:58] in the South Asia region, drawing insights from his research.

[00:01:02] We explore how both countries leverage educational initiatives as a tool of soft power to extend

[00:01:07] their influence, defining soft power and emphasizing the significance of education

[00:01:11] diplomacy.

[00:01:13] We review India's evolving educational diplomacy, highlighting its neighbor-first approach

[00:01:18] and China's initiatives to internationalize its higher education system and the growing

[00:01:22] appeal of Chinese universities in the region.

[00:01:25] We also consider competing perceptions about Chinese and Indian education diplomacy,

[00:01:30] contrasting these with Western strategies to explore the future dynamics of geopolitical

[00:01:35] influence through education.

[00:01:37] We hope you enjoy the conversation.

[00:01:39] Hello, Nirjan and welcome to Pods by PEI.

[00:01:48] How are you doing today?

[00:01:49] Hi, Shivani.

[00:01:50] Thank you for having me here today.

[00:01:51] I'm doing all right.

[00:01:52] Although I should admit that it does feel a little strange being on the other side

[00:01:57] of the mic.

[00:01:58] I guess I am a little nervous, but I think it's a good thing.

[00:02:01] I think it shows that I'm excited about today's conversation.

[00:02:04] So let's do it.

[00:02:06] I can't wait for today's conversation.

[00:02:08] So let's get right into it.

[00:02:10] The report, I think, has a very interesting title, Nirjan.

[00:02:13] It's called Pen, Power and Politics.

[00:02:16] I really want to begin the conversation by exploring why you decided on that title

[00:02:20] and what it says about the nature and narrative of the report.

[00:02:24] So as you are aware, Shivangi, one of the most difficult tasks of doing research

[00:02:31] is actually coming up with the title.

[00:02:34] You want it to be original, you want it to be catchy, while also one that fully conveys

[00:02:40] the true meaning of the research framework.

[00:02:43] Here as well we tried a number of ideas until we landed with the three words, pen,

[00:02:51] power and politics, which I think reflects our intentions of the research.

[00:02:57] So let me begin with the first P, pen.

[00:03:01] Now, usually in discussions around foreign policy, the first thought that comes to mind

[00:03:07] is a sword, right?

[00:03:08] Meaning military power and not a pen, which we refer to education.

[00:03:14] But we know the relationship between a pen and a sword.

[00:03:17] And what we wanted to do here was toy with this idea.

[00:03:21] The second P, power, is to introduce the concept of hard and soft power that countries

[00:03:27] wield in diplomacy.

[00:03:29] The third P, politics, is to denote that at the end of the day, this is all a political

[00:03:34] endeavor.

[00:03:35] So these are what we wanted to capture with the main title.

[00:03:39] And I should note that the subtitle is actually quite straightforward.

[00:03:44] It's how India and China wield soft power through education diplomacy in South Asia.

[00:03:50] It's quite self-explanatory, and I don't need to say much about that.

[00:03:54] But the nuances within that is what we want to capture in the report and is the topic

[00:04:01] of our discussion today.

[00:04:02] Yeah, so let's go straight into how the report discusses the growing competition among

[00:04:08] nations, particularly China and India and South Asian region.

[00:04:13] And as a context of your research on soft power and education diplomacy, what call

[00:04:18] for a research like this?

[00:04:19] Why do you think pen, power, and politics is something you wanted to write about

[00:04:23] in this context?

[00:04:24] So for the last decade or so, there has been a growing interest globally in the rise of

[00:04:30] China and its impact on the existing world order.

[00:04:34] This is also the case in our part of the world, South Asia, which has traditionally

[00:04:39] been seen as being under India's sphere of influence.

[00:04:44] Here, China is said to be trying to increase its influence.

[00:04:48] Right.

[00:04:49] Now, we know that countries use different approaches to compete for influence, which

[00:04:55] is largely through that blend of hard and soft power diplomacy.

[00:05:00] Here, hard power would be things ranging from economic sanctions to outright warfare.

[00:05:06] Right.

[00:05:07] But in today's world, we seem to see a lot of this kind of hard power with

[00:05:12] the wars like the Russia-Ukraine war and now the war in Gaza.

[00:05:17] Generally, this approach is somewhat controversial and discouraged.

[00:05:22] Right.

[00:05:23] On the other hand, soft power diplomacy, which is all about getting others to see

[00:05:29] things your way without using force, is more widely accepted and encouraged.

[00:05:35] Right.

[00:05:36] So I guess one of the examples of soft power that we are all familiar with is

[00:05:41] foreign aid. But then you have soft power through cultural diplomacy, which would

[00:05:45] be things like Hollywood and Bollywood.

[00:05:48] Right. At PI, we're also studying how donor countries use financing of

[00:05:52] infrastructure projects in recipient countries to project influence.

[00:05:57] And this research is about how countries use education diplomacy as one of the

[00:06:02] tools of soft power diplomacy.

[00:06:04] Right. I mean, you went quite in on highlighting how education diplomacy is a

[00:06:10] form of soft power. But what is its significance in expanding influence as a

[00:06:14] foreign policy tool?

[00:06:16] In its modern form, in the modern area, education diplomacy has largely been

[00:06:21] used by the Western powers like the US and the UK.

[00:06:25] And it's usually done to project power.

[00:06:27] It's done to build relationships, to gain influence, as well as to push

[00:06:34] certain economic and political agendas to other countries.

[00:06:37] But in recent times, it's no longer just a Western thing.

[00:06:41] For example, by 2018, China, which we'll get into detail later, is set to be

[00:06:46] spending close to five hundred million dollars on scholarships for

[00:06:49] international students. So now the most popular form of education diplomacy

[00:06:54] involves providing scholarships where donor governments provide financial

[00:06:59] assistance to students from recipient countries to pursue a generally long

[00:07:04] term academic degrees in the institutions of higher education.

[00:07:08] We've heard of examples such as American Fulbright.

[00:07:11] We've heard of the British Schevening Awards and a few more like the

[00:07:16] Australia Awards. Right.

[00:07:18] The second most popular form are short term training programs where donor

[00:07:22] governance provide trainings to enhance the capacity of bureaucrats and other

[00:07:27] relevant individuals of recipient countries.

[00:07:29] But then there are other forms as well, for example, to develop language

[00:07:33] skills, be it in French, Chinese or even English.

[00:07:37] Right. Then there are others like education exchanges, military study

[00:07:40] programs. One thing about education diplomacy that I would like to note is

[00:07:45] the role in development.

[00:07:48] There is a lot of cynicism around aid and development as a tool of foreign

[00:07:51] policy. While I have my issues around the politics and the effectiveness of

[00:07:57] aid, I still think that it is driven by both the pursuit of diplomacy and

[00:08:02] development. And I think education diplomacy really ties these two together

[00:08:07] because it helps in two fronts.

[00:08:08] On the one hand, it enhances the skills and knowledge of individuals and

[00:08:13] government officials of recipient countries.

[00:08:15] And on the other hand, it's a way for donor countries to share their

[00:08:21] values and ideals without pushing too hard.

[00:08:24] So, in a way, it's about helping and influencing at the same time.

[00:08:27] Right. Getting deeper into the report, I'd like to understand how India

[00:08:31] and China in particular use education diplomacy.

[00:08:35] As you mentioned, both of these countries have been employing this as a

[00:08:38] foreign policy tool since the beginning or at least in modern India and in

[00:08:42] modern China. Let's take them one at a time.

[00:08:45] And beginning with India, could you describe how India has implemented

[00:08:48] education diplomacy, especially in the context of how it has transformed

[00:08:53] over the years?

[00:08:53] So India and, rightly said, modern India has been exercising soft power

[00:08:59] diplomacy since the very beginning, from the time of its independence.

[00:09:02] Right. There are two important things that India did back then under

[00:09:07] Prime Minister Nehru, which contributed significantly to how India

[00:09:11] advances its education diplomacy.

[00:09:14] The first was the investments in developing research and other

[00:09:19] academic institutions such as the IITs that still hold a lot of prestige

[00:09:24] in India and in the region.

[00:09:26] The second is the establishment of two particular institutions, namely

[00:09:31] the Indian Council for Cultural Relations, the ICCR and the Indian

[00:09:38] Technical and Economic Cooperation Program for the ITEC.

[00:09:41] So ICCR was tasked with promoting Indian language, literature and arts,

[00:09:48] as well as fostering cultural relations between India and other countries.

[00:09:54] It was initially established as a unit under the Ministry of Education,

[00:09:58] but was later transferred to the Ministry of External Affairs,

[00:10:02] commonly known as MEA, which I think highlights the shifting

[00:10:05] significance of the role assigned to ICCR.

[00:10:08] ITEC, on the other hand, was an initiative dedicated to transferring

[00:10:12] technical knowledge to government bureaucrats of partner countries.

[00:10:17] ITEC is also within the architecture of MEA and it manages

[00:10:21] a significant part of India's education diplomacy.

[00:10:25] Besides these two, India also has other windows.

[00:10:28] For example, it provides scholarships, trainings and technical assistance

[00:10:32] through its participation in the Colombo Plan.

[00:10:37] However, despite all its aspirations and investments in these

[00:10:42] institutional arrangements, I think India's use of soft power,

[00:10:46] including through education diplomacy, was limited by its

[00:10:50] structural limitations.

[00:10:51] Now, what I mean by this is that there was this glaring contradiction

[00:10:57] between India's ambition and its reality.

[00:11:00] So while India was doling out aid and trying to project power,

[00:11:05] it was also the largest recipient of aid worldwide.

[00:11:08] You know, India received over 50 billion dollars in aid from the 50s

[00:11:14] to the 90s. But things did change for India as the economic reforms

[00:11:19] that it embarked on during the early 1990s began to pay dividends.

[00:11:23] And as the economy grew, the Indian confidence also grew

[00:11:29] to project itself not only as a regional but also a rising global power.

[00:11:35] And it made a conscious effort to rebrand itself, including as a

[00:11:38] net provider of aid by limiting the amount of aid it receives

[00:11:42] and increasing the aid it gives out.

[00:11:45] And I think education diplomacy was also part of this rebranding.

[00:11:49] Firstly, we see some increases in the number of scholarships that

[00:11:53] India begins to offer.

[00:11:54] And in 2005, there was this proposition during the 13th Sark

[00:11:58] summit to establish the South Asia University.

[00:12:01] And around this time, there's also this increasing

[00:12:05] acknowledgement of the benefits of international education,

[00:12:08] especially in terms of the financial benefits.

[00:12:11] And so you see institutions like the University Grants Commission,

[00:12:14] the Association of Indian Universities, starting to pay closer

[00:12:20] attention to internationalizing India's higher education.

[00:12:24] And in 2002, we see the International Division of IGNUM,

[00:12:28] which is the Indira Gandhi National Open University being upgraded

[00:12:33] from a small cell to being a full-fledged division in an effort

[00:12:36] to increase its intake of international students.

[00:12:40] More recently and to be more precise, around 2014,

[00:12:44] with the rise of China and its increasing engagement in South Asia.

[00:12:49] I think there's more pressure for India to engage directly

[00:12:51] with its neighbors.

[00:12:52] Prime Minister Modi, who also came to power in 2014,

[00:12:55] is keen to project India's soft power.

[00:12:58] And we've seen him do this through different channels.

[00:13:01] However, I'm not sure how successful India has been

[00:13:05] with its education diplomacy, which we can discuss in detail later.

[00:13:10] The government has introduced a number of initiatives.

[00:13:13] For example, in 2018, it launched the Study in India initiative

[00:13:17] with the goal of attracting more international students

[00:13:20] through scholarships that give around $3,000 per year.

[00:13:24] Right. You have laid out and covered the larger institutional aspects.

[00:13:29] But I'm still curious if there are any specifics about how

[00:13:32] India implements its education diplomacy in South Asia.

[00:13:35] Sure. But before I get to the specifics, let me just note

[00:13:39] that India's diplomacy or for that matter, any country's diplomacy

[00:13:43] is rooted or takes place within the larger political context

[00:13:48] of their bilateral relationship.

[00:13:50] Right. So in India's case, India maintains a distinct

[00:13:55] relationship with each of the three South Asian countries

[00:13:58] that are part of this study.

[00:13:59] And all of these are marked by significant but somewhat

[00:14:02] varying degrees of similarities in terms of culture and history.

[00:14:06] But sure, let's say about India and Nepal relationship.

[00:14:08] It's primarily defined by its open border.

[00:14:11] And India's desire to try to influence the Nepali system

[00:14:15] to ensure its security with Bangladesh.

[00:14:18] The relationship is shaped by the history of partition

[00:14:22] and the role that India played in the formation of Bangladesh.

[00:14:27] With Sri Lanka, India's involvement in its domestic conflict

[00:14:31] is well documented.

[00:14:33] We just had our colleague Sushav recently do a podcast

[00:14:36] on this very topic with noted Sri Lankan journalist Dilruxi.

[00:14:40] If anyone is interested, I would highly recommend that episode.

[00:14:44] Having said that, let me get to some of the specifics

[00:14:47] and I'll keep myself brief in the interest of time.

[00:14:51] So one of India's biggest components of education diplomacy

[00:14:55] is its scholarship program that is administered by the ICCR.

[00:14:59] The ICCR annually awards around 3000 scholarships

[00:15:03] to foreign nationals from around 190 countries or so

[00:15:08] to study in Indian universities.

[00:15:10] These scholarships have various funding sources

[00:15:13] and are offered under a number of schemes.

[00:15:16] The largest of these schemes come from its own source,

[00:15:19] which are provided through schemes such as the

[00:15:22] Atal, Bihari, Vajpayee scholarship.

[00:15:25] The total number varies annually,

[00:15:27] but generally there are about 500 seats every year.

[00:15:31] And there are other schemes as well,

[00:15:32] like the Commonwealth Scholarship Scheme

[00:15:34] designated for students from the Commonwealth countries.

[00:15:37] Now, ICCR also manages other scholarships

[00:15:41] that are funded through different sources.

[00:15:43] For example, it has from the MEA itself.

[00:15:46] And these are earmarked for very specific countries.

[00:15:49] For example, Bangladesh has the India Scholarship Scheme.

[00:15:52] For Nepal, there is the Sylvia Jubilee Scheme.

[00:15:55] And for Sri Lanka, there's the Nehru Memorial Scheme.

[00:15:58] So these are earmarked for that particular country.

[00:16:01] These scholarships generally pay for tuition

[00:16:04] for undergrad and post-grad studies,

[00:16:06] living allowance and few things that are assumed, of course.

[00:16:10] So that's the primary window of education diplomacy.

[00:16:15] The second type of education diplomacy is through the ITEC.

[00:16:20] ITEC claims to have since its establishment in the 1960s,

[00:16:24] it has trained over 200,000 officials from 160 different countries.

[00:16:30] So the way it works is ITEC puts out a calendar of training

[00:16:34] that are offered at the various institutions

[00:16:37] of either higher education or training facilities

[00:16:40] and are open to applicants from eligible countries.

[00:16:43] Now, it's difficult to get the exact number,

[00:16:45] but all three countries that are part of this study

[00:16:48] have benefited from these specific opportunities.

[00:16:51] For Nepal, this can be traced as far back as the 1970s,

[00:16:55] when hundreds of Nepali engineers studied in India

[00:16:58] as part of the technical training developed,

[00:17:00] some of the larger hydropower projects that were being discussed back then.

[00:17:04] Besides that, like I said earlier, this Colombo Plan offers

[00:17:06] around 500 placements of scholarships, largely administered by ME itself.

[00:17:12] And there are other initiatives, those that have to do with arts and cultures.

[00:17:15] We have the B.P. Karela Trust, an Indian Nepal Trust Foundation,

[00:17:19] Indus Sri Lanka Cultural Elections Program, so on and so forth.

[00:17:23] Right. Nishan, you noted earlier

[00:17:26] that PM Modi signaled towards prioritizing the neighborhood

[00:17:29] in his first term as prime minister.

[00:17:32] Even in the report, you note that for India,

[00:17:34] in terms of education diplomacy, the neighborhood is still first.

[00:17:38] Could you please expand on that?

[00:17:39] Yes. So we know that India has a policy to put its neighborhood first.

[00:17:44] Right. The debate on whether or not that is a successful policy

[00:17:48] is a topic for another podcast.

[00:17:52] But for now, this neighborhood first policy is there.

[00:17:56] And it's not really surprising, right, because India wants to maintain

[00:17:59] its hegemonic control over the region.

[00:18:02] And we see India use both hard and soft power diplomacy to achieve this goal.

[00:18:08] And this is also evident in the number of scholarships

[00:18:11] that are offered to South Asian students.

[00:18:14] So a significant percent of these scholarships

[00:18:17] are awarded to students in South Asia.

[00:18:20] India does have interest in other parts of the world,

[00:18:23] such as Southeast Asia and Africa.

[00:18:25] And you can see an increasing number of scholarships

[00:18:27] that are being given to these regions as well.

[00:18:30] But if you just look at the numbers itself with regard to education policy,

[00:18:34] I would say that the neighborhood still gets the highest priority.

[00:18:37] Right. Well, what about the bull factor with regards to India's education diplomacy?

[00:18:42] I mean, what were some of the reasons that you found in your research

[00:18:46] as to why South Asian students are drawn towards pursuing higher education in India?

[00:18:50] This is an important point, because at the end of the day,

[00:18:53] it is about what students want, where they want to go.

[00:18:56] Right. And here there are a number of things that really draw

[00:19:00] South Asian students to India.

[00:19:02] The first huge advantage that India has is all of the historical

[00:19:07] and cultural ties, right, from language, religion

[00:19:12] and even food with its neighboring countries.

[00:19:15] India has historically been a destination, including for the academics

[00:19:19] or the pursuit of knowledge for many in this region.

[00:19:22] And this is particularly true for those in Nepal.

[00:19:26] As a result, South Asia represents the largest share

[00:19:29] of the foreign students in India.

[00:19:32] Then there is the influence of Bollywood,

[00:19:34] the quintessential soft power of India and how that has brought

[00:19:39] everyone a lot closer.

[00:19:42] I think this is especially in the ability to understand the language.

[00:19:45] But even besides Hindi and perhaps some regional languages,

[00:19:49] the acceptance of English in India, both in terms of the daily use

[00:19:54] or in the academic settings, makes it very easy for

[00:19:58] foreign students to navigate around.

[00:20:00] The third, I would say, is the reputation of Indian institutions.

[00:20:06] In South Asia, the IITs are still considered

[00:20:09] to be some of the finest institutions.

[00:20:11] This coupled with the fact that the lower cost of higher education

[00:20:16] has made India a preferred choice for a lot of the South Asian students.

[00:20:20] Indian institutions are known for their technical studies,

[00:20:24] so engineering, computer science, etc.

[00:20:27] But students are also equally interested to enroll

[00:20:31] in a lot of the non-technical courses as well.

[00:20:34] And finally, some of the students that we interviewed

[00:20:37] also mentioned India's economic rise and the fact that there are many

[00:20:42] multinational companies setting up shop,

[00:20:44] that their higher education in India would open up professional

[00:20:48] opportunities for them.

[00:20:49] So these, I would say, are the key pull factors for India.

[00:20:53] Moving on to India's neighbor, we shift our focus now to China.

[00:20:57] Now, this is especially interesting given China's rise as a superpower

[00:21:02] and its ambition to have global influence.

[00:21:04] How has China viewed its education diplomacy

[00:21:07] and how has it evolved over the years, given its own transformation,

[00:21:11] to make this an effective tool of its foreign policy?

[00:21:13] We know that soft power is key for China.

[00:21:17] And perhaps the biggest strategy here is its investments

[00:21:21] through the Belt and Road Initiative.

[00:21:23] Besides this, China has used many other such tools,

[00:21:27] for example, from hosting major sporting events like the Olympics

[00:21:32] to providing humanitarian assistance.

[00:21:34] But it is quite evident that China also considers education diplomacy

[00:21:39] as one of its key tools of foreign policy.

[00:21:43] So taking a look back, China's foreign aid begins in the early 1950s.

[00:21:49] And most of these are directed to fellow communist countries

[00:21:53] and probably one of the first non-communist countries

[00:21:55] to receive China's aid, right?

[00:21:58] Even in terms of education diplomacy, we see that at that time,

[00:22:02] most of this is targeted towards communist countries,

[00:22:05] especially from Eastern Europe.

[00:22:08] By the 1960s, we see data that there are around 2000 international students

[00:22:14] from around 40 different countries, mostly from Asia and Africa.

[00:22:19] Then as Mao begins his Cultural Revolution, starting around 1966,

[00:22:25] China announces that it would not be accepting any international students.

[00:22:29] And all of the students that are in the country are asked to leave.

[00:22:34] Now, it would take another six years or so

[00:22:36] before China would once again welcome international students.

[00:22:41] By 1976, China had once again around 2000 international students.

[00:22:47] Then in 1978, Deng Xiaoping comes to power

[00:22:50] and we see China embark on a huge reform effort,

[00:22:53] which includes a mission to acquire knowledge from all around the world.

[00:22:58] Something that I think China is still continues to do to date, right?

[00:23:03] So I saw this number that between 1978 and 2015,

[00:23:08] nearly four million Chinese students studied abroad, mainly in the West.

[00:23:14] And about 20% of them were on government scholarships.

[00:23:17] Now, this is also a type of education diplomacy

[00:23:20] where a country sends its students to other countries.

[00:23:23] But this is something we don't cover in our report

[00:23:26] because this is not so applicable in our case.

[00:23:28] But it's still worth noting, right?

[00:23:31] So moving back to China, since Deng Xiaoping,

[00:23:34] China has continued to encourage international students.

[00:23:37] And this is evident in some of the policy decisions

[00:23:40] that China has made over the years.

[00:23:42] One of the important one is the China education law

[00:23:47] that provisioned for the external exchange and cooperation

[00:23:50] in terms of education.

[00:23:52] And in 1977, China establishes the China Scholarship Council

[00:23:58] under the Minister of Education.

[00:23:59] Which is given the responsibility for coordinating all of the support,

[00:24:04] including for both Chinese students that are going to study abroad

[00:24:07] as well as foreign students that are studying in China.

[00:24:11] Now, another important part here is that China's growth

[00:24:16] and becoming one of the largest economies of the world,

[00:24:20] it fuels this demand for skilled workforce in the country.

[00:24:25] And what this does is it brings a lot of investments,

[00:24:28] both from the public and the private sector,

[00:24:30] that results in some of the most internationally renowned universities in the world.

[00:24:37] Then in 2004, there is another important activity that China undertakes.

[00:24:41] And this is the establishment of its Confucius Institute.

[00:24:45] This is done to promote Chinese language and culture around the world.

[00:24:49] By December 2019, China had built over 500 Confucius Institutes

[00:24:55] around the world in 162 countries.

[00:24:59] And it states, according to its website,

[00:25:02] that it has educated over 9 million students in the Chinese language.

[00:25:06] So that's an important feat that it has achieved.

[00:25:10] By this time, China has also arrived in the world stage as the other superpower

[00:25:15] and started to flex its muscle with the arrival of Xi Jinping as the leader.

[00:25:20] Now, under Xi Jinping, there is also continued investment

[00:25:24] in this particular area to make China a global hub for international students.

[00:25:28] So, for example, in 2015, China launches the Double World Class Project,

[00:25:33] which is aimed to produce more top-tier schools in China.

[00:25:37] Now, the success of these initiatives are clear in the numbers.

[00:25:41] At the end of 2012, there are around 300,000 international students studying in China

[00:25:48] with about 8% receiving government scholarships.

[00:25:51] By 2018, this had increased to about 500,000,

[00:25:57] with about 13% receiving government scholarships.

[00:26:01] Today, China ranks third in terms of attracting international students

[00:26:05] behind only the US and the UK.

[00:26:07] So that is an incredible feat by China over the years.

[00:26:16] China does its education diplomacy in quite a scattered manner

[00:26:21] and so it's difficult to put into neat little bins of how China actually does this.

[00:26:26] But we've tried our best in our report to do this

[00:26:28] and I'll try to explain some of this here.

[00:26:32] The largest component of China's education diplomacy

[00:26:36] are the China government scholarships that are administered by the CSC.

[00:26:42] Now, these are generally established in accordance

[00:26:46] with the cooperative agreements between the governments of China

[00:26:50] and the respite country and are available to students

[00:26:55] from all eligible countries around the world.

[00:26:58] Through the CGS, the government also supports many other types of scholarships.

[00:27:03] For example, there's like the China University Program, the Silk Road Scholarship.

[00:27:08] There are other targeted scholarships like the EU program

[00:27:11] for students from the EU countries

[00:27:14] or the ASEAN University Network Program for students from ASEAN countries.

[00:27:19] There's quite a lot of variety in that.

[00:27:22] Now, CSC also manages other scholarships that are sourced to other agencies.

[00:27:27] So for example, one of them is the degrees education program

[00:27:30] that is funded through the Ministry of Commerce

[00:27:32] and these are generally extended to government officials

[00:27:36] at a very senior managerial level

[00:27:38] and it requires approval of relevant agencies of recipient governments.

[00:27:42] Besides these, there are other scholarships like Youth of Excellence Scheme of China

[00:27:46] or the China Trade Union Road Scholarship

[00:27:49] offered to trade union officials of BRI countries.

[00:27:52] These scholarships are generally offered for the duration of the academic program

[00:27:57] with an additional year at the outset

[00:27:59] for the students to take Chinese language courses.

[00:28:02] This is an important aspect of the program

[00:28:05] because given the challenges for many students with the Chinese language,

[00:28:10] recently the Ministry of Education began requiring

[00:28:13] a one-year undergraduate foundation program for international students

[00:28:18] to prepare them for what they call communicative competence

[00:28:22] in the Chinese language and also in terms of cross-cultural context of China.

[00:28:27] So students must pass this final exam of the program

[00:28:31] to be qualified for the scholarship.

[00:28:34] In addition to those scholarships administered by CSC,

[00:28:39] there are other scholarships.

[00:28:41] One of the most prominent ones being those offered by the provincial

[00:28:45] and the municipal governments to students to study in their particular jurisdiction.

[00:28:51] So for example, there's the scholarship provided by the Yunnan government

[00:28:55] to students from Southeast and South Asia

[00:28:58] to study in the Kunming Medical University

[00:29:00] or the scholarships provided by the Shanghai government

[00:29:04] to study at the Shanghai University of Political Science and Law.

[00:29:08] Besides these, there are short-term trainings provided to bureaucrats of recipient countries.

[00:29:14] There is a growing military relationship with South Asia

[00:29:17] and while this falls outside the scope of this research,

[00:29:19] just wanted to mention there are scholarships for military officials

[00:29:23] and military institutions, academic exchanges, joint military exercises.

[00:29:29] One more, I have to mention the Confucius Institute.

[00:29:32] So there's Confucius Institute

[00:29:33] and there are the offshoots of Confucius Institute called Confucius Classrooms.

[00:29:37] Now these are entities that are established in recipient countries

[00:29:43] in partnership between a Chinese university

[00:29:46] and an academic institution in the host country.

[00:29:49] And their primary role is to support the teaching of Chinese language,

[00:29:53] particularly Mandarin.

[00:29:54] Since 2009, the government has been offering Confucius Institute scholarship program

[00:30:00] with the goal of developing Chinese language experts

[00:30:04] as well as an international pool of Chinese language teachers.

[00:30:08] These scholarships are towards the pursuit of bachelor's and master's degree

[00:30:12] in the area of teaching Chinese to speakers of other languages.

[00:30:16] You laid out China's economic diplomacy strategies and activities globally,

[00:30:22] but now focusing on South Asia a little bit more,

[00:30:25] how has Chinese education diplomacy played out in this region?

[00:30:30] So as with the case of India, I think it is important to acknowledge that

[00:30:35] China's diplomacy also happens within the larger geopolitical context.

[00:30:41] Here, the first thing to note with regards to China and South Asia

[00:30:46] is that China's increasing presence in South Asia

[00:30:49] is often portrayed as being an anomaly, right?

[00:30:54] And it's always maybe it is, but we should note that

[00:30:59] China is in a peculiar way a part of South Asia.

[00:31:03] China is direct neighbor to five of the eight South Asian countries,

[00:31:10] if you were to consider Afghanistan as well, right?

[00:31:13] Now, there is also a history that China shares with some of these countries.

[00:31:19] This is particularly true in the case of Nepal

[00:31:22] with its shared history and border with Tibet,

[00:31:24] often called China's soft underbelly.

[00:31:28] And China has a huge interest in that matter, right?

[00:31:30] With the other two countries that are part of this study,

[00:31:32] things are a bit different, I think, in that this is more about the present

[00:31:37] and the future that China is looking towards.

[00:31:40] With Bangladesh, it's the population of the 170-odd million.

[00:31:45] There is a significant interest of China to develop better economic ties.

[00:31:50] With Sri Lanka, which sits in this strategic area within the Indian Ocean,

[00:31:56] China has an interest to ensure its maritime security.

[00:31:59] For the most part, there is general consensus that

[00:32:02] South Asia being under India's sphere of influence,

[00:32:06] but this is clearly being challenged now, right?

[00:32:09] And I think infrastructure diplomacy has been the key strategy for China.

[00:32:14] But there are elements of education diplomacy

[00:32:18] that we also see that is being played out here, right?

[00:32:21] Number-wise, it's quite difficult to get specific numbers for each of these countries.

[00:32:27] For Bangladesh, based on various notices put out by the Chinese embassy,

[00:32:33] that as of 2020, China has offered over 2,500 scholarships to Bangladeshi students.

[00:32:42] For Nepal, we came across a number of MOUs

[00:32:45] where the two countries had agreed on a number of scholarships,

[00:32:48] not total, but on an annual basis.

[00:32:51] So for example, in 2016,

[00:32:54] a joint statement says that China is willing to offer around 400 training opportunities that year.

[00:32:59] In another MOU, there is an agreement we saw

[00:33:02] where there is an agreement to increase the number of students from 20 to 200.

[00:33:07] For Sri Lanka, we found in a speech by a Chinese ambassador

[00:33:10] that Sri Lanka was receiving around 200 scholarships per year,

[00:33:15] for which 80% of the students were from the MOU.

[00:33:18] On the Confucius Institute part,

[00:33:20] so the first one was established in South Asia in 2005,

[00:33:23] and today there are 17 such institutions across the region.

[00:33:27] All three countries in our study,

[00:33:30] there are two Confucius Institutes in each.

[00:33:32] In Nepal, the first was established in 2005,

[00:33:36] and the second one was established in 2006.

[00:33:39] And the third one was established in 2007.

[00:33:42] So we have a number of institutions across the region.

[00:33:45] So we have two Confucius Institutes in each.

[00:33:47] In Nepal, the first was established in 2007 in Kathmandu University,

[00:33:52] which was in partnership with

[00:33:54] Hibay University of Economics and Business.

[00:33:56] The second one was recently established in 2019 in Cuban University,

[00:34:01] and this was in partnership with the East China University of Technology.

[00:34:05] It is, however, difficult to state how many students

[00:34:08] have actually received the Confucius Institute scholarship,

[00:34:11] given the lack of a centralized database.

[00:34:14] It really doesn't say how many in total.

[00:34:16] So that's about how the education diplomacy is happening in South Asia,

[00:34:21] the specifics of it.

[00:34:34] Yes, indeed.

[00:34:35] This observation is about the priority

[00:34:39] that the Chinese government has placed in improving the quality of its higher education,

[00:34:46] and also in internationalizing its institutions of higher education.

[00:34:53] And I think the former really helps with the latter.

[00:34:56] So for example, it has a number of initiatives,

[00:34:59] such as Project 211, Project 985,

[00:35:04] which is in addition to the double world class project that I mentioned earlier,

[00:35:10] that is all about developing Chinese institutes of higher education

[00:35:15] at par with their Western counterparts.

[00:35:18] Another example is the initiative that China launched in 2004,

[00:35:22] allowing Western universities to establish satellite campuses

[00:35:27] in collaboration with local universities.

[00:35:31] As a result of this, today there are over two dozen such institutions in China

[00:35:37] that are affiliated with Western universities.

[00:35:40] Now, I think this has really helped China offer itself

[00:35:44] with regard to higher education as an alternative to the West.

[00:35:50] So what about China's pull factors in terms of education diplomacy?

[00:35:54] What are your observations on things that are attracting South Asian students to China?

[00:35:59] The emergence of China has a political and economic superpower,

[00:36:04] and the future development prospects that it entails

[00:36:09] is the key point of attraction for most of the students,

[00:36:14] whether they're South Asian or other international students.

[00:36:18] The other point that was raised by many of the student respondents in our study

[00:36:24] was the Kunquot modern degrees that China was offering,

[00:36:29] or the Chinese universities were offering.

[00:36:31] Students seem to be attracted to China's emphasis on scientific and engineering education,

[00:36:38] with many students mentioning cutting edge industries like robotics and AI.

[00:36:45] Others were more practical about having a degree from China,

[00:36:50] and also the ability to understand the Chinese language and the culture,

[00:36:56] and how that would bring or how that would give them an advantage.

[00:37:01] This was both in terms of getting placements in Chinese companies

[00:37:05] that they anticipated to be investing in their own countries,

[00:37:08] but also in terms of the potential business

[00:37:11] and other partnerships beyond their immediate coursework.

[00:37:16] So those, I would say, were the key pull factors for students wanting to study in China.

[00:37:21] Are there any other interesting observations you'd like to highlight

[00:37:24] that you've already not spoken about?

[00:37:27] I think the most important observation is how China is investing in promoting

[00:37:33] the Chinese language.

[00:37:35] Clearly one of the biggest challenges that many students stated

[00:37:39] in terms of studying in China was getting used to the Chinese language,

[00:37:43] both in terms of starting out in China and having to navigate a completely new environment,

[00:37:50] but also this has to do with in-class activity where even some of the courses

[00:37:55] that were taught in English had to be done in an environment that is predominantly Chinese.

[00:38:01] But many students also stated that the support systems in the Chinese universities,

[00:38:07] as well as the available technology, made it quite easy for them to adjust.

[00:38:13] The Chinese government seems to be aware of this challenge

[00:38:17] and has both a short-term and a long-term strategy.

[00:38:21] So in terms of short-term, I would say it would be the foundational program

[00:38:25] that focuses on the ability of students to speak the Chinese language,

[00:38:30] as well as the ability to adapt to the Chinese culture.

[00:38:34] The long-term strategy seems to be through the promotion of

[00:38:37] the Chinese language and culture through the Confucius Institutes.

[00:38:41] And I guess there's one more observation that I think would be interesting to share,

[00:38:46] and that is the choice of students to study liberal arts courses in China

[00:38:51] and includes courses such as journalism.

[00:38:54] Now I say this because we generally associate these field of study

[00:38:59] with a lot of critical thinking, which appears somewhat contradictory to the perception

[00:39:05] of heavy censorship by the Chinese government.

[00:39:09] So when we asked around, when we asked the students,

[00:39:12] the most general response that we got was that while in China,

[00:39:16] they learned to keep their politics to themselves.

[00:39:19] And that's that.

[00:39:20] Now that you've established in detail how the two countries implement their education diplomacy,

[00:39:26] can you give us an overarching observation about who's doing better in terms of execution?

[00:39:33] And why is one doing better than the other?

[00:39:36] So that's a good question, Shivangi.

[00:39:38] But I don't think there is a definite answer to that.

[00:39:45] The impact of soft power is subtle and the results of diplomacy,

[00:39:51] typically done through a blend of different strategies,

[00:39:54] come in a package that can't really be attributed to just one aspect of it.

[00:39:59] And I should note that our goal of the paper was also not to pit

[00:40:03] one China versus India, one against the other.

[00:40:06] Having said that, I think there is one interesting number that we noticed

[00:40:11] and that has to do with the number of students from South Asia

[00:40:14] in Chinese and Indian universities.

[00:40:16] I should note that this point has also been raised by other studies,

[00:40:21] including one by a prominent Indian think tank,

[00:40:25] which asks in its title, is India still the neighborhood's education hub?

[00:40:31] If you look at the data from about 2016 and 17,

[00:40:36] we see that China is receiving about double the number of students from South Asia than India.

[00:40:43] Now, even if we are to discount the Pakistani students from this equation,

[00:40:50] for whom India is not a readily available choice,

[00:40:54] you would still have equal numbers of South Asian students in these two countries.

[00:41:01] So this clearly points to one thing,

[00:41:04] that the Chinese, despite being a late entrant into this,

[00:41:09] are doing much better in terms of selling their education

[00:41:12] to the current generation of students.

[00:41:15] I think there are a few things that work to China's favor here.

[00:41:19] The first is the fact that many South Asians,

[00:41:22] including those from Bangladesh, Nepal, Sri Lanka,

[00:41:25] there's a fairly favorable view of China.

[00:41:29] A lot of this has to do with how China is seen in relation to India

[00:41:34] as a counterbalance to India's hegemonic behavior in the region,

[00:41:39] as well as its alleged interference in domestic politics.

[00:41:44] In contrast, China's foreign policy of non-interference

[00:41:48] resonates well in these countries.

[00:41:51] The second is the rapid development of China,

[00:41:55] especially of its economy and also of its infrastructure,

[00:42:01] which is admired by many in South Asia

[00:42:04] and serves as a model for many in these developing countries.

[00:42:08] But the biggest draw I would say

[00:42:10] is this global recognition of Chinese universities that I mentioned earlier.

[00:42:15] Now, if you were to look at some of the world rankings,

[00:42:18] it is clear that the Chinese universities are doing much better.

[00:42:23] In contrast, despite having reputed institutions,

[00:42:27] especially of these legacy institutions like the IITs,

[00:42:30] Indian institutions do not have the same level of reputations

[00:42:34] as their Chinese counterparts globally.

[00:42:37] So for example, in one of the rankings,

[00:42:40] there are about five Chinese universities in the top 50 in the world.

[00:42:46] With Peking and Tsinghua University ranking as top 15,

[00:42:51] the highest ranking Indian institution is 155.

[00:42:56] Now, I'm fully aware of the flaws and limitations of these rankings,

[00:43:01] but nevertheless, I think it does give an indication

[00:43:04] of how these are being perceived by the general public.

[00:43:08] And I think that the lack of investment by India

[00:43:12] in internationalizing its education system

[00:43:16] is one of the biggest reasons for this.

[00:43:19] It's not that there hasn't been an effort.

[00:43:21] For example, that I mentioned earlier,

[00:43:23] there was this bill in 2013,

[00:43:25] the foreign education bill that was introduced,

[00:43:28] allowing more international investments in Indian institutions,

[00:43:31] but these initiatives have stopped.

[00:43:36] And all this is not to diss India.

[00:43:38] India has a lot going for itself

[00:43:39] in terms of its effective use of education diplomacy.

[00:43:43] We discussed the shared culture, the shared history,

[00:43:47] and there's still a lot of potential for goodwill from India's neighbors,

[00:43:51] especially if India plays a card well.

[00:43:53] Indian scholarships are still highly coveted,

[00:43:56] and I think that the ITEC programs are very helpful

[00:44:00] in terms of building the capacity

[00:44:02] of the government officials of recipient countries,

[00:44:05] but also in terms of contributing towards building goodwill

[00:44:09] and good relations between the neighboring countries.

[00:44:12] In your answer, you briefly touched on how a country is perceived

[00:44:17] and how that is important.

[00:44:18] That's actually my next question,

[00:44:20] because in the report you also discussed the perception

[00:44:23] in the recipient countries

[00:44:25] of how the two countries are executing their education diplomacy.

[00:44:29] So what are your observations on that?

[00:44:31] Indeed.

[00:44:32] While it is generally understood that donors use education diplomacy

[00:44:37] for political purposes,

[00:44:40] there is a notable perception, particularly in Nepal,

[00:44:44] that these are very politicized.

[00:44:47] By this I mean that scholarships are often seen as being used

[00:44:51] as rewards for bureaucrats and politicians by the embassy.

[00:44:56] The Nepali media has reported politicians and bureaucrats

[00:45:00] even asking for scholarships from the Indian embassy.

[00:45:03] But this is not only limited to India.

[00:45:06] Students that we interviewed who were studying in China

[00:45:10] also mentioned how important political connections

[00:45:14] and endorsements were to getting Chinese scholarships.

[00:45:19] This is not something we came across

[00:45:21] in the case of Bangladesh and Sri Lanka,

[00:45:24] where most of the offerings seem to come from within academic circles.

[00:45:29] However, subtler forms of education diplomacy,

[00:45:33] such as exchange programs,

[00:45:35] were said to be used to encourage journalists

[00:45:38] to develop and to convey a positive image of China.

[00:45:42] But let me also note here that this is a strategy

[00:45:45] that is highly used by Western countries, right?

[00:45:48] You mentioned it at the very beginning of today's episode

[00:45:53] and have reiterated it again

[00:45:55] that education diplomacy is a big part

[00:45:57] of how Western countries engage with the world.

[00:46:00] From the British Council to Alliance Francais to American centers,

[00:46:04] these institutions promote their respective countries' language and culture.

[00:46:09] Then there are Western scholarships

[00:46:10] like the Chivining, Australia Awards and Fulbright.

[00:46:14] How would China and India's approach to education diplomacy

[00:46:17] compare with how the West handles it?

[00:46:20] So we do not explicitly examine

[00:46:22] how the Western countries implement their education diplomacy.

[00:46:26] This was slightly beyond our scope of work.

[00:46:29] But because this topic arose frequently during our lit review

[00:46:34] and the interviews that we were conducting with relevant stakeholders,

[00:46:38] we had to take a crack at it.

[00:46:40] And here I'd like to begin by the fact

[00:46:43] that the Chinese and the Indian education diplomacy

[00:46:47] look quite similar when compared with how the Western countries do theirs.

[00:46:53] So the Western countries, the US, the UK, Australia and others,

[00:46:58] have their scholarship programs.

[00:46:59] You mentioned the Chivining, the Australia Awards, the Fulbright.

[00:47:02] Then they also have their short-term trainings

[00:47:05] that they offer, exchange programs.

[00:47:08] And they also have these capacity development programs

[00:47:11] that organize a lot of these junket tours for the bureaucrats.

[00:47:15] I should also add that these countries are also top destinations

[00:47:20] for international students, a lot of which are done by private entities,

[00:47:24] but with a lot of help from their respective governments.

[00:47:28] So the most significant difference we found

[00:47:32] is in the perception of the political motivation behind these initiatives.

[00:47:37] So while all forms of education diplomacy

[00:47:42] involve some sort of political influence,

[00:47:45] or the attempt to politically influence,

[00:47:47] Western approaches are perceived to be less political.

[00:47:51] So for example, the Chinese government claims,

[00:47:54] confuses institutes as a way of promoting Chinese language and culture.

[00:47:59] But critics, particularly from the West

[00:48:03] and not so much from the general public in South Asia,

[00:48:06] see these as Chinese government's propaganda machines.

[00:48:10] Western institutions that have a similar mandate,

[00:48:13] you mentioned the British Council, the Alliance France,

[00:48:16] do not get these criticisms

[00:48:18] as they are seen largely to be independent from the governments.

[00:48:23] This is also similar for scholarships,

[00:48:25] as Western scholarship schemes, the Fulbrights, the Chivining,

[00:48:28] seem to be less political and more standardized and transparent.

[00:48:33] The other key difference we noticed was that

[00:48:38] students saw their pathway to Indian and Chinese universities

[00:48:42] as temporary migration.

[00:48:45] So this would be for short-term ventures,

[00:48:48] like to attain a degree,

[00:48:50] to network for potential business,

[00:48:53] or to work for a few years.

[00:48:55] But the goal was to return home.

[00:48:58] But this is different from the pathway to Western universities.

[00:49:03] Especially the United States, the UK, Australia, Canada,

[00:49:07] where many students consider this as a longer-term endeavor

[00:49:12] and even towards a permanent migration.

[00:49:15] This is, I think, due largely to the immigration policies of Western countries

[00:49:21] that encourage high-skilled international students to settle down.

[00:49:24] These differences, I think, explain why India and China,

[00:49:28] many students see India and China as stepping stones rather than end destinations.

[00:49:41] I've skipped a lot of the details in our conversation today,

[00:49:44] in the interest of time.

[00:49:45] But in the report, we go into quite a detail about the process

[00:49:49] of how these scholarships are administered

[00:49:52] and what some of the actual numbers are.

[00:49:54] I think this is information that some people may be interested.

[00:49:57] So if you are, you can download it from our website.

[00:50:00] We just released it, which is pei.center.

[00:50:04] That's it.

[00:50:05] As someone who spent five years studying in India,

[00:50:08] I would not have imagined the nuances and various dimensions

[00:50:11] that make it all possible.

[00:50:12] This has been extremely informative

[00:50:14] and I'm sure it gives us all an alternative way

[00:50:16] to view diplomacy and foreign policy.

[00:50:18] Thank you so much for your time, Nishan.

[00:50:20] Thank you, Shivangi.

[00:50:21] It's been a pleasure talking to you.

[00:50:29] Thanks for listening to Pods by PEI.

[00:50:31] I hope you enjoyed my conversation with Niranjan

[00:50:33] on pen and power politics, education diplomacy in South Asia.

[00:50:37] Today's episode was produced by Khushi Hang

[00:50:39] with support from Ridesh Thapkota.

[00:50:41] The episode was recorded at PEI studio

[00:50:44] and was edited by Ridesh Thapkota.

[00:50:46] Our theme music is courtesy of Rohit Shakya from Dindabad.

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[00:51:24] Thanks once again from me, Shivangi Bodehal,

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